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Add Gorgias Problem to glossary#32

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shadow-mister wants to merge 1 commit intoDefenderOfBasic:mainfrom
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Add Gorgias Problem to glossary#32
shadow-mister wants to merge 1 commit intoDefenderOfBasic:mainfrom
shadow-mister:patch-2

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@shadow-mister
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Added Gorgias Problem on the bottom.

Future additions would include the swimming pool for models challenge---i.e., how to create friction that can resolve the Gorgias Problem

Added Gorgias Problem on the bottom.

Future additions would include the swimming pool for models challenge---i.e., how to create friction that can resolve the Gorgias Problem
@DefenderOfBasic
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  • I like having a name to describe the "structural asymmetry" here, it will ALWAYS be easier / cheaper to "signal" something as being true than to reveal it as true
  • I am tempted to link to your post on this (https://shadowrebbe.substack.com/p/open-memetics-research-of-mine) because I think it does a good job explaining it, slightly better than the current definition. Specifically this line:

It takes less energy to make something seem than it does to make it really be.

It take less energy to make a person convicted of a belief than it does to make them understand.

I like the "plain english" - and I'm leaning more "plain english" on the current glossary for now, as the public website is meant for as wide readership as possible (and trying to lift up the average reader to the necessary level)

  • I like that you mention "belief-installation" here, can see this being something we have a lot of writing & discussion about
  • I think it's worth writing an essay summarizing our thoughts on a "cure" to the Gorgias Problem. It cannot be cured "in general" but can be cured if you control how people that trust you form their beliefs? (like if you can define the rules of the "beauty contest" / judging criteria like we were discussing on substack?)

@DefenderOfBasic DefenderOfBasic changed the title Update glossary.md Add Gorgias Problem to glossary Dec 25, 2025
@over2sd
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over2sd commented Jan 8, 2026

This is a meaningful concept to define, but I'm not sure it should have an eponymous title.
Consider that TVTropes has largely eliminated trope name that include a character's name because they are opaque to anyone who doesn't recognize the character (or their name outside of a particular context). If you keep the eponymous title, include a "trope namer" type of sentence "This concept is named for ___, because he ___", where the second blank is something like 'first explained the thing' or 'was subject to this in 19xx, when his ...situation...'

@DefenderOfBasic
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yes @over2sd thank you for pointing this out - I was holding off on merging it because I haven't seen this word spread, I don't expect to it, but I couldn't figure out why. And I think this is the reason why. It should have a self descriptive name, otherwise new people have to learn a specific cultural association.

@shadow-mister
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Yes, make sense. I'm thinking something like "depth asymmetry" but that's not intuitive enough. or "sheer vs depth cost" or "appearance discount". but I think it makes sense that I am not the one to name it. because I'm still thinking with my specific model, and if other people understand what is being meant, they'll probably cut out some of my noise and add more signal to it.

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3 participants