Replies: 24 comments 19 replies
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off topic, as usual for me hahaha - had most fun game since 82/83 this morning - ten robots and me, but now we're all getting smarter about the role of planets - am now thinking of them as 'planet fuel' - they fuel the game in some sense - |
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question mark that's growing in my mind is around the changes made to the locking/unlocking code in the mac10 of project utexas over the summer - it definitely works - rock solid - by simplifying it as much as possible - bare minimum |
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hahaha here's a bug for ya - just now robot got the last planet - both sides lose! but then it shows victory messages for both sides! hahaha - sweet:) |
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ahha - for context - current galaxy view early in a game - 'planet fuel' is green - |
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Noah, I had to re-implement the locking code because CIS was using another UUO (system call) to implement it than standard tops10. What changes did you make? I'd like to have a look at them. Could you point them out to me? |
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for sure merlyn, totally understood - and kinda wish hadn't really touched it because turned out (probly) wasn't really the issue;( decwar/utexas/utexas23-reconstruction/WARMAC.MAC Line 4589 in 66d2271 think it's kinda the 'bare minimum' - there's one global lock - reason this was so appealing is could always be sure of releasing it! now today, thinking a single lock will be a bottleneck - don't think it's a prob right now - but for really intense games could be!? ahha - got this directly from the dec document you sent me merlyn, this global local code is right outta the example in there! only good thing can say about it is 'guaranteed to work' hahaha! |
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Firstly, I figured it was in WARMAC but where is the diff? did you commit your changes? if so what's the hash? In theory this should work just fine, so what was the issue? |
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yep that's why i mentioned it earlier today - looking back, doubt that change was necessary and can see how reversing it could happen if necessary - no big deal. that link above will take ya to the lock/unlock in warmac and you'll see right away how different things are there. it kinda happened over time and can't see a decent commit to point to right now - but will letcha know if find one:) |
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ahha - yeah i remember now - was commiting in another repo - then squashing before committing to drforbin/decwar/utexas, so commits are kinda blurry there now - unforseen consequence! |
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Well, I can do a diff but it would just be easier if you have a commit of your code to compare with base! |
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can diff drforbin/decwar/warmac and drforbin/decwar/utexas/warmac of course - but for sure it's a bit annoying - wish there was a commit to point to but it got squashed;( |
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in any case - doubt that whole 'experiment' was necessary and can forsee reversing it back to the base in drforbin/decwar/warmac - learned a ton - but likely was a bit of a mistake |
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Ok. really just curious about your work. Let's talk sometime. |
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for sure merlyn - let's have another call soon!:) |
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Oh, on tkwars. Joe was using system V shared memory i.e. mmap |
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old school style - shared memory:) |
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how bout lock free shared memory? have seen it from the trenches dealing with voip packets |
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lock free shared memory...please explain! |
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circular buffers / ring buffers - this is just for high frequency real time stuff i guess - zero relevance to decwar hahaha! |
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i imagine the paddle wheel of an old mississippi steamer hahaha |
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oh.. but that's not really shared memory in the classic sense. I.e. memory is not allocated to the virtual address space of the process. |
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agreed - there's no fight for a single address - the ring buffer bypasses the race condition - it's kinda playn the effective role of a lock - let's you avoid the overhead of the lock mechanisms |
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Well, firstly mmap does implement ANY locking mechanism, and the correct way to do it in UNIX without circular ring buffers etc is semaphores which is basically the same thing as tops10 locking, and remember none of this is mandatory, it's all advisory. |
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I uploaded a tape with decwar v 2.2 on it to: |
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thanks harris! can you tell more about it, is it related to this guy here?:) |
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In my game I'm working on capture. the doc says: The code: but what I'm seeing (v 2.2 and 2.3) both have a random hit on energy when capturing a planet. For example: Stardate 4 Command: Vulcan capturing Neu planet @71-63 Neu planet @71-63 makes 68.3 unit phaser hit on Command: Stardate 5 Command: 4607.4 - 4539.0 = 68.4 is not the 50 I thought it would be. Ideas? |
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Ok, AI explained it was the planet's hit on my ship that was the deduction. |
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AI explained? come on |
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Couldn't see the forest for the trees |
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This too. https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/items/7e2ccf50-e814-4bce-91d2-a7f6440eabe4 |
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It's probably the same file. I looked through some old cd's I have where I
ran decwar on the klh10 emulator, I was looking for a baseline of version
2.2 to test with. I didn't know about that link.
…On Sat, Nov 1, 2025 at 4:40 PM Noah Smith ***@***.***> wrote:
thanks harris! can you tell more about it, is it related to this guy
here?:)
https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/items/1aa48343-09ab-4b3b-a9f2-e2e525074a4d
The files represnted here were migrated from a Decus magnetic tape, and
include only binary executables.
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Is that the binary which was hand patched to run on later machines because it originally ran on KA10? |
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believe so, but guess there's some small possibility that a completely different 2.2 exe could show up? harris please let us know if you see any crashes with it. if you stress test it and it's solid and never crashes, this would be huuuuuge news!:) a reliable 2.2 exe would be fantastic to have:) |
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If it's the binary I'm thinking of it crashes constantly. |
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agreed, harris please let us know if you see any crashes, if after some stress testing it doesn't have any crashes this would be fantastic:) to me it would indicate a 'new and unknown to us' 2.2 exe has appeared, because the 2.2 exe from the decus tape that we've had is pretty much guaranteed to crash. merlyn is the expert on it, but did try it myself and had repeated crashes. |
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That binary does represent the TRUE UT example of the game. I.e. it having 9 ships per side and all the timer code. |
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I believe so, I think I got it from this thread:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sys.pdp10/c/3hfkcm8Eb8s/m/vRBI2eSnrFYJ
Back then I believe the only emulator we had to run tops was KLH10, that
explains why I found it on a cd that was exclusively KLH10.
It runs on SIMH, but it seems the shared memory is not working properly
(each session starts a new game). I suspect something is installed wrong.
It does support 9 ships. It does delete itself if not in the right place.
It seems stable. I just can't test battles and the such. I just tested
dieing to see if there was a timer, but it dropped me to the OS command
line not pregame when the ship died.
If you have ideas how to make it share memory or want me to do more tests,
just say so. I'm working on the damage piece now. for gowars.
HN
…On Sat, Nov 1, 2025 at 9:04 PM Merlyn Cousins ***@***.***> wrote:
Is that the binary which was hand patched to run on later machines because
it originally ran on KA10?
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well, its a binary so there is not much that can be done unless you wanna use ddt and hand change instructions. |
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It looks like the segment is not listed. Ok, it's running on one session,
the other shows:
.sys d
Dormant Segments:
Program Device Owner High(P)
OPSER DSKB [SYS] 6
CRSCPY DSKB [SYS] 15
LOGIN DSKB [SYS] 29
HELP DSKB [SYS] 2
LOGOUT DSKB [SYS] 19
DIRECT DSKB [SYS] 32
BACKUP DSKB [SYS] 16
PIP DSKB [SYS] 11
QUEUE DSKB [SYS] 31
COMPIL DSKB [SYS] 8
…On Sun, Nov 2, 2025 at 6:23 AM Merlyn Cousins ***@***.***> wrote:
well, its a binary so there is not much that can be done unless you wanna
use ddt and hand change instructions.
as for shared mem, when run it nd do a sys d does it show the segment?
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once you exit the executable and there are no longer any references to it it should be put on the dormant segment list |
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When it's running on another term I did a sys d and got:
sys d
Dormant Segments:
Program Device Owner High(P)
OPSER DSKB [SYS] 6
CRSCPY DSKB [SYS] 15
LOGIN DSKB [SYS] 29
HELP DSKB [SYS] 2
LOGOUT DSKB [SYS] 19
DIRECT DSKB [SYS] 32
BACKUP DSKB [SYS] 16
PIP DSKB [SYS] 11
QUEUE DSKB [SYS] 31
COMPIL DSKB [SYS] 8
When I leave the game and do a sys d:
.sys d
Dormant Segments:
Program Device Owner High(P)
OPSER DSKB [SYS] 6
CRSCPY DSKB [SYS] 15
LOGIN DSKB [SYS] 29
HELP DSKB [SYS] 2
LOGOUT DSKB [SYS] 19
DIRECT DSKB [SYS] 32
BACKUP DSKB [SYS] 16
PIP DSKB [SYS] 11
QUEUE DSKB [SYS] 31
COMPIL DSKB [SYS] 8
…On Sun, Nov 2, 2025 at 6:53 AM Merlyn Cousins ***@***.***> wrote:
once you exit the executable and there are no longer any references to it
it should be put on the dormant segment list
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It should say something like decwar gam?
Because I believe that executable is placed in gam: account
…On Sun, Nov 2, 2025, 9:20 AM Harris Newman ***@***.***> wrote:
When it's running on another term I did a sys d and got:
sys d
Dormant Segments:
Program Device Owner High(P)
OPSER DSKB [SYS] 6
CRSCPY DSKB [SYS] 15
LOGIN DSKB [SYS] 29
HELP DSKB [SYS] 2
LOGOUT DSKB [SYS] 19
DIRECT DSKB [SYS] 32
BACKUP DSKB [SYS] 16
PIP DSKB [SYS] 11
QUEUE DSKB [SYS] 31
COMPIL DSKB [SYS] 8
When I leave the game and do a sys d:
.sys d
Dormant Segments:
Program Device Owner High(P)
OPSER DSKB [SYS] 6
CRSCPY DSKB [SYS] 15
LOGIN DSKB [SYS] 29
HELP DSKB [SYS] 2
LOGOUT DSKB [SYS] 19
DIRECT DSKB [SYS] 32
BACKUP DSKB [SYS] 16
PIP DSKB [SYS] 11
QUEUE DSKB [SYS] 31
COMPIL DSKB [SYS] 8
On Sun, Nov 2, 2025 at 6:53 AM Merlyn Cousins ***@***.***>
wrote:
> once you exit the executable and there are no longer any references to
it
> it should be put on the dormant segment list
>
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it's in [5,30], and I'm running it r gam:decwar.exe. (from acct 1,2)
If I copy it elsewhere, (ie: 1,2) it deletes itself.
HN
On Sun, Nov 2, 2025 at 7:23 AM Merlyn Cousins ***@***.***>
wrote:
… It should say something like decwar gam?
Because I believe that executable is placed in gam: account
On Sun, Nov 2, 2025, 9:20 AM Harris Newman ***@***.***> wrote:
> When it's running on another term I did a sys d and got:
> sys d
>
> Dormant Segments:
> Program Device Owner High(P)
>
> OPSER DSKB [SYS] 6
> CRSCPY DSKB [SYS] 15
> LOGIN DSKB [SYS] 29
> HELP DSKB [SYS] 2
> LOGOUT DSKB [SYS] 19
> DIRECT DSKB [SYS] 32
> BACKUP DSKB [SYS] 16
> PIP DSKB [SYS] 11
> QUEUE DSKB [SYS] 31
> COMPIL DSKB [SYS] 8
>
> When I leave the game and do a sys d:
> .sys d
>
> Dormant Segments:
> Program Device Owner High(P)
>
> OPSER DSKB [SYS] 6
> CRSCPY DSKB [SYS] 15
> LOGIN DSKB [SYS] 29
> HELP DSKB [SYS] 2
> LOGOUT DSKB [SYS] 19
> DIRECT DSKB [SYS] 32
> BACKUP DSKB [SYS] 16
> PIP DSKB [SYS] 11
> QUEUE DSKB [SYS] 31
> COMPIL DSKB [SYS] 8
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2025 at 6:53 AM Merlyn Cousins ***@***.***>
> wrote:
>
> > once you exit the executable and there are no longer any references to
> it
> > it should be put on the dormant segment list
> >
> > —
> > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> > <
>
#55 (comment)>,
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If your docked at a planet, and an enemy captures the planet, your status still shows Docked:
Vulcan not adjacent to base!!
Stardate 38
Condition Docked+Green
Location 25-23
Torpedoes 10
Energy left 2427.8
Damage 735.9
Shields +78.7% 1967.5 units
Radio On
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